GDP and the stimulus
posted by muirgeo at 6:07 AM
0 comments
Wednesday, August 03, 2011
Thursday, July 28, 2011
American Net worth before and after "free trade"
And then there are always real world results for those to which it matters;
American Household Net Worth
Before free trade;
1980 to 1995 Net worth ~tripled from $9.5 trillion to $27.9 trillion
After Free Trade;
1995 to 2010 Net worth ~doubled from $27.9 trillion to $57.1 trillion
I suspect that there is some sort of neat fancy thing none of use have that never was developed because of the current global neoliberal economic stagnatory inefficiency.
So when you say its cool because everyone has a internet cell phone that looks like we are doing better then before but the question is could we have been doing even better. I suspect if progressive policies had dominated these last 25 years or so our cell phones would be Star Trek like transporters by now. Oh well… civilization progresses in spite of neoliberal drag so produced.
American Household Net Worth
Before free trade;
1980 to 1995 Net worth ~tripled from $9.5 trillion to $27.9 trillion
After Free Trade;
1995 to 2010 Net worth ~doubled from $27.9 trillion to $57.1 trillion
I suspect that there is some sort of neat fancy thing none of use have that never was developed because of the current global neoliberal economic stagnatory inefficiency.
So when you say its cool because everyone has a internet cell phone that looks like we are doing better then before but the question is could we have been doing even better. I suspect if progressive policies had dominated these last 25 years or so our cell phones would be Star Trek like transporters by now. Oh well… civilization progresses in spite of neoliberal drag so produced.
posted by muirgeo at 9:17 PM
0 comments
Saturday, July 23, 2011
Libertarians out of the closet
http://cafehayek.com/2011/07/quotation-of-the-day-25.html
Dan H July 22, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Muirgeo,
Do you know why I’ve been able to make pretty good money in my early 20s as a trader? Because half the people I trade with are idiots like you who don’t live in reality. Eighteen months ago, they were desparate to sell me their commodities because they were CERTAIN Obama’s agenda was going to boost the economy. Six months ago, they were still selling me their gold. Whether it’s a stock, commodity, or currency, I’m lucky to have idiots like you in the world who do not want to live in reality and constantly undervalue or overvalue assets.
I don’t have to take a bet with you. I make bets every day on where I think the economy is going, which is why I have a lot of money in commodities right now.
Reply
Methinks1776 July 22, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Amen.
Reply
John Sullivan July 22, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Yes, but you still could be richer. Your time is valuable and you waste it on Muirgeo.
Reply
Dan J July 22, 2011 at 5:23 pm
I didn’t have the money, but an acquaintance did, and I advised him under the Obama admins and democrat Congress to get a hold of gold. Not pieces of paper, but real gold. He did and is happier for it. Obamamaniacs were gullible in believing the messiah would deliver them. My friend is happy with investment. Also, should Obama get re-elected…. By as much as you can afford. This guy so anti-business (make your own assumptions as to why) that more stagnation and anti- growth will come especially from someone unencumbered by worries of getting re-elected.
Reply
muirgeo July 23, 2011 at 9:16 am
“Do you know why I’ve been able to make pretty good money in my early 20s as a trader?”
Because you are likkely a self- centered individual and have no real interest in making a true contribution to society so you take advantage of asymmetrical information to suck the wealth out of home equity and pensions and 401k’s and from all of the true economy run by productive citizens who care both about earning a fair living AND making a contribution.
See if I was starting out today and wanted to just make money maybe I’d go into banking and finance or join the mafia but some of us care about what it is we actually do to earn our money. If I was starting out now I’d go into electrical engineering or something with the idea to be a part of THOSE great people sovling a true long term need for society.
Those people will look back on their lives with pride and comfort…. you’ll be divorced in no time, surrounded by shallow minded scavengers who hate you, the rest of society already hates you and 40 years hence in you haven’t jumped off a tall building or dropped in front of a subway train you’ll wilt into a bitter old man like the Mr. Potter character from its a wonderful life… and all the money and gold will seem so worthless.
Good luck buddy…
Reply
Dan J July 23, 2011 at 11:07 am
Ahahahahahahaha……… Soapbox boy……. Climb down… Save the world and take a trip into the ghetto with your stethoscope and heal somebody…. Can I get a witness?
Reply
John Sullivan July 22, 2011 at 4:54 pm
I am in the aluminum business. I am only a libertarian hypothetically. I actually do better under the quasi-fascism, interventionmism, of the Obama administration, and sadly, won’t lose much sleep if he wins again. The losers will be the Muirgeo’s of this world, if their God gets in.
The game today is rigged for the debtor class over the saving class. The savers are the middle class and the debtors are the industrial class, entrepreneurs, etc., who need working capital lines of credit, and who get them for virtually noting at the expense of the working class, whose savings bring them squat.
That’s what Muirgeo wants. He wants squat shit for everybody who can’t borrow millions from the government owned and controlled banking sector. He wants continued governmental control over the economy so people like me can golf all winter in Naples, Florida on free borrowed money. He doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to understand what he advocates. He is against competition and he pays a dear price for that belief, while I’m drinking Belgian Lager checking out 20 yr old talent at the loacl Tiki bars.
I’m buying the rounds for all the little gold diggers who love to prostitute themselves to the capitalists and he’s posting his bullshit on sites like this one to keep the taps open for us!
Good day,mate!
Reply
John Sullivan July 22, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Sorry for the spelling errors my friends, but it’s the beer that caused them. Muirgeo, keep it up! You’re gonna make the price of Aluminum ingot go to $1.50 lb., and I’ve got my eye on a nice Ferrari and the piece of ass that comes with it.
Reply
muirgeo July 23, 2011 at 9:27 am
“I am in the aluminum business. I am only a libertarian hypothetically.”
Wow… thanks for actually being truthful. You are just the guy all the libertarians and the professors here are covering for. You make my point exactly. The idea of free markets and libertarianism IS simply a front for people like you. Yeah maybe I’m a simple little man with a wife and kids and dog to go hiking with but don’t you agree even worse than being a scoundral like yourself or a simple man like me is to be a shill for people like you. I feel sorry for you but I really feel sorry for those who believe in you. Let me know how this all turns out 30 years hence.
Anyway glad to hear you’ll be voting for Obama.
Dan H July 22, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Muirgeo,
Do you know why I’ve been able to make pretty good money in my early 20s as a trader? Because half the people I trade with are idiots like you who don’t live in reality. Eighteen months ago, they were desparate to sell me their commodities because they were CERTAIN Obama’s agenda was going to boost the economy. Six months ago, they were still selling me their gold. Whether it’s a stock, commodity, or currency, I’m lucky to have idiots like you in the world who do not want to live in reality and constantly undervalue or overvalue assets.
I don’t have to take a bet with you. I make bets every day on where I think the economy is going, which is why I have a lot of money in commodities right now.
Reply
Methinks1776 July 22, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Amen.
Reply
John Sullivan July 22, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Yes, but you still could be richer. Your time is valuable and you waste it on Muirgeo.
Reply
Dan J July 22, 2011 at 5:23 pm
I didn’t have the money, but an acquaintance did, and I advised him under the Obama admins and democrat Congress to get a hold of gold. Not pieces of paper, but real gold. He did and is happier for it. Obamamaniacs were gullible in believing the messiah would deliver them. My friend is happy with investment. Also, should Obama get re-elected…. By as much as you can afford. This guy so anti-business (make your own assumptions as to why) that more stagnation and anti- growth will come especially from someone unencumbered by worries of getting re-elected.
Reply
muirgeo July 23, 2011 at 9:16 am
“Do you know why I’ve been able to make pretty good money in my early 20s as a trader?”
Because you are likkely a self- centered individual and have no real interest in making a true contribution to society so you take advantage of asymmetrical information to suck the wealth out of home equity and pensions and 401k’s and from all of the true economy run by productive citizens who care both about earning a fair living AND making a contribution.
See if I was starting out today and wanted to just make money maybe I’d go into banking and finance or join the mafia but some of us care about what it is we actually do to earn our money. If I was starting out now I’d go into electrical engineering or something with the idea to be a part of THOSE great people sovling a true long term need for society.
Those people will look back on their lives with pride and comfort…. you’ll be divorced in no time, surrounded by shallow minded scavengers who hate you, the rest of society already hates you and 40 years hence in you haven’t jumped off a tall building or dropped in front of a subway train you’ll wilt into a bitter old man like the Mr. Potter character from its a wonderful life… and all the money and gold will seem so worthless.
Good luck buddy…
Reply
Dan J July 23, 2011 at 11:07 am
Ahahahahahahaha……… Soapbox boy……. Climb down… Save the world and take a trip into the ghetto with your stethoscope and heal somebody…. Can I get a witness?
Reply
John Sullivan July 22, 2011 at 4:54 pm
I am in the aluminum business. I am only a libertarian hypothetically. I actually do better under the quasi-fascism, interventionmism, of the Obama administration, and sadly, won’t lose much sleep if he wins again. The losers will be the Muirgeo’s of this world, if their God gets in.
The game today is rigged for the debtor class over the saving class. The savers are the middle class and the debtors are the industrial class, entrepreneurs, etc., who need working capital lines of credit, and who get them for virtually noting at the expense of the working class, whose savings bring them squat.
That’s what Muirgeo wants. He wants squat shit for everybody who can’t borrow millions from the government owned and controlled banking sector. He wants continued governmental control over the economy so people like me can golf all winter in Naples, Florida on free borrowed money. He doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to understand what he advocates. He is against competition and he pays a dear price for that belief, while I’m drinking Belgian Lager checking out 20 yr old talent at the loacl Tiki bars.
I’m buying the rounds for all the little gold diggers who love to prostitute themselves to the capitalists and he’s posting his bullshit on sites like this one to keep the taps open for us!
Good day,mate!
Reply
John Sullivan July 22, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Sorry for the spelling errors my friends, but it’s the beer that caused them. Muirgeo, keep it up! You’re gonna make the price of Aluminum ingot go to $1.50 lb., and I’ve got my eye on a nice Ferrari and the piece of ass that comes with it.
Reply
muirgeo July 23, 2011 at 9:27 am
“I am in the aluminum business. I am only a libertarian hypothetically.”
Wow… thanks for actually being truthful. You are just the guy all the libertarians and the professors here are covering for. You make my point exactly. The idea of free markets and libertarianism IS simply a front for people like you. Yeah maybe I’m a simple little man with a wife and kids and dog to go hiking with but don’t you agree even worse than being a scoundral like yourself or a simple man like me is to be a shill for people like you. I feel sorry for you but I really feel sorry for those who believe in you. Let me know how this all turns out 30 years hence.
Anyway glad to hear you’ll be voting for Obama.
posted by muirgeo at 12:40 PM
0 comments
Friday, July 22, 2011
OK how about this... How about I ask you if 22,555,000 is a BIGGER or SMALLER number than 22,064,000?
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
No bet lets just have gentlemanly agreement as to weather George Will mis-informed his readers or not.
The former number is form 2008 and the latter from June 2011. Do the numbers fit with the claim "....swelling the ranks of government employees..."
Maybe you could write to Mr Will and ask him for his source for his claim.
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
No bet lets just have gentlemanly agreement as to weather George Will mis-informed his readers or not.
The former number is form 2008 and the latter from June 2011. Do the numbers fit with the claim "....swelling the ranks of government employees..."
Maybe you could write to Mr Will and ask him for his source for his claim.
posted by muirgeo at 6:55 AM
0 comments
Monday, August 17, 2009
Wednesday, December 06, 2006
Free markets versus Democracy
Dave1
Yes. Big government slows progress. You should be a conservative.
Posted by: Jack
Jack,
You "wrote off" a very good post by Dave with this dismissive quip. You've disregarded major facts about Laissez Faire economies and Democracy. There is NO SUCH THING as a "free market". Markets require governments and the best form of government is democracy not a Corporatacry or Fascism. The last time true free markets existed we lived in caves. There IS something called democracy and in a democracy the people have a right to decide the rules of business....and corporations, CEO's and their money SHOULD not undermine Democracy. They should be subservient to it.
So do you think in a free market system the CEO's aren't gonna take advantage of profits they can make via government funded corporate welfare? Or will their honesty and integrity prevent them from doing so? Or do we have to democratically decide what limits we want on corporations and democratically decide the rules of business.
Because if you're telling me that We the People should not interfere with running of business in our country then you are telling me that reading the Economist and the WSJ has taught you NOTHING of democracy and free markets and dare I say fascism.
Don't you think it's the responsibility of WE THE PEOPLE to call for laws and policies that keep the markets fair and prevent corporate welfare?
Don't you understand that their is no such thing as free markets or Laissez Faire economies because such economies will always seek to find profits in governmental largess, government favors, government policy, government pork and government contracts?
Do you understand this is a major contradiction of modern conservative economic thought...that has just been clearly demonstrated by 6 years of conservative rule with resultant booming government spending, booming debts, booming corporate welfare and an economy on the brink because of these policies?
You're the one so well informed yet you tell us to be a conservative. Does that mean voting Democrat or Republican.
I know at least when we had a democratic President the budget was far more sane. Since we've had 6 years of Republicanism which has busted the budget to all extremes and given away yours and my tax dollars to war profiteers, the drug companies, the insurance industry and the oil companies and those profits had little to do with fair markets and a lot to do with undermining democracy.
Here's the question for you ....do you believe the economic system of Laissez Faire capitalism should be subservient to democracy of, by and for the people
You're right it 's not us against them...its a political system Democracy against an economic system that left to its own will clearly subvert Democracy.
So what's the WSJ say about all this?
Yes. Big government slows progress. You should be a conservative.
Posted by: Jack
Jack,
You "wrote off" a very good post by Dave with this dismissive quip. You've disregarded major facts about Laissez Faire economies and Democracy. There is NO SUCH THING as a "free market". Markets require governments and the best form of government is democracy not a Corporatacry or Fascism. The last time true free markets existed we lived in caves. There IS something called democracy and in a democracy the people have a right to decide the rules of business....and corporations, CEO's and their money SHOULD not undermine Democracy. They should be subservient to it.
So do you think in a free market system the CEO's aren't gonna take advantage of profits they can make via government funded corporate welfare? Or will their honesty and integrity prevent them from doing so? Or do we have to democratically decide what limits we want on corporations and democratically decide the rules of business.
Because if you're telling me that We the People should not interfere with running of business in our country then you are telling me that reading the Economist and the WSJ has taught you NOTHING of democracy and free markets and dare I say fascism.
Don't you think it's the responsibility of WE THE PEOPLE to call for laws and policies that keep the markets fair and prevent corporate welfare?
Don't you understand that their is no such thing as free markets or Laissez Faire economies because such economies will always seek to find profits in governmental largess, government favors, government policy, government pork and government contracts?
Do you understand this is a major contradiction of modern conservative economic thought...that has just been clearly demonstrated by 6 years of conservative rule with resultant booming government spending, booming debts, booming corporate welfare and an economy on the brink because of these policies?
You're the one so well informed yet you tell us to be a conservative. Does that mean voting Democrat or Republican.
I know at least when we had a democratic President the budget was far more sane. Since we've had 6 years of Republicanism which has busted the budget to all extremes and given away yours and my tax dollars to war profiteers, the drug companies, the insurance industry and the oil companies and those profits had little to do with fair markets and a lot to do with undermining democracy.
Here's the question for you ....do you believe the economic system of Laissez Faire capitalism should be subservient to democracy of, by and for the people
You're right it 's not us against them...its a political system Democracy against an economic system that left to its own will clearly subvert Democracy.
So what's the WSJ say about all this?
posted by muirgeo at 5:06 PM
0 comments
